Re: *** Call to Action: New Sensible Soccer Game ***

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4 years 11 months ago #130402 by Emmeti

I maintain that we should not discount Kickstarter so frivolously, and I'm disappointed that this seems to have happened. It's genuinely perfect for Jon.


That's why he doesn't like it.

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4 years 11 months ago #130403 by steviebwoy78
Replied by steviebwoy78 on topic Re: *** Call to Action: New Sensible Soccer Game ***

I maintain that we should not discount Kickstarter so frivolously, and I'm disappointed that this seems to have happened. It's genuinely perfect for Jon.


That's why he doesn't like it.

He doesn't like it because it's perfect for him?

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4 years 11 months ago - 4 years 11 months ago #130410 by Playaveli

Will Zlatko's port enable us to play the game on the Xbox One or PS4? I'm not interested in a PC-only game to be honest.

I maintain that we should not discount Kickstarter so frivolously, and I'm disappointed that this seems to have happened. It's genuinely perfect for Jon.


It will be an all-intel-machine port. That means: Windows, Linux, Max! Cross platform.

SWOS on consoles doesn't do justice to the game, thinking about controllers, thinking about online-playability.
You might remember the discussions on Codemasters forum. Nobody believed us when Redhair and me warned about the fast-paced-action of SWOS, not being comparable to Ego shooters etc... including you!
What happened was a disaster.

Don't want to warm up cold coffee. Just wanted to remind that we need patience, and think this through.

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4 years 11 months ago #130413 by steviebwoy78
Replied by steviebwoy78 on topic Re: *** Call to Action: New Sensible Soccer Game ***

It will be an all-intel-machine port. That means: Windows, Linux, Max! Cross platform.

SWOS on consoles doesn't do justice to the game, thinking about controllers, thinking about online-playability.
You might remember the discussions on Codemasters forum. Nobody believed us when Redhair and me warned about the fast-paced-action of SWOS, not being comparable to Ego shooters etc... including you!
What happened was a disaster.

Regarding the Xbox 360 version of SWOS; yes, I disagreed with you then, and though I'm a much more mellow man these days, I still disagree with you *in principle*. SWOS XBLA was poorly executed offline and online. You were right that it's a super fast game but it *should* have been possible to do the pace of the game justice online. Yes, you were right that it didn't work online but the point is that it *should* have. As I said then, if they can make a ridiculous fast-paced FPS game work online with 64 players, then they *should* have been able to get SWOS working online. We all saw that Codemasters completely dropped the ball with SWOS, both offline and online. Let's let bygones be bygones :)

I maintain that Sensible Soccer should work on consoles too. It's a crucial market nowadays and Sensi is a perfect fit *for the average gamer*. The Mega Drive version worked, and the SNES version worked. I know you guys are the super elite of SWOS so I won't maintain that these versions were comparable to the Amiga or PC versions, but Sensible Soccer on consoles has been done before, and it should be done again imho. Again, I'll reiterate that I know you guys play SWOS to a level that far exceeds my own, but Jon (or whoever) should open the game up to having it played on consoles as well as home PCs etc. Again, this is just my opinion and I'm not saying it's the right or only one.

In any case, we're strolling off-topic a little here. Could someone explain - is the point of Zlatko's port to enable us to work with the code and release a new game based upon it? Isn't that a copyright issue? Please forgive my naivety in this area.

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4 years 11 months ago #130414 by steviebwoy78
Replied by steviebwoy78 on topic Re: *** Call to Action: New Sensible Soccer Game ***

Don't want to warm up cold coffee. Just wanted to remind that we need patience, and think this through.

Thanks Playa, just noticed this edit :)

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4 years 11 months ago - 4 years 11 months ago #130415 by Playaveli
The level of our play is totally irrelevant. It's not about how good somebody is at the game.

What is relevant?
Fact is, SWOS (esp. "the" version 96/97) wasn't made or rather programmed/coded for a console. And that has to have some good reason.

XBLA is a great port of it, offline playability is sheer fantastic. But then, the netcode ruined it. Why? Because no real beta-testing has been done. Nobody with a real clue was involved (how else could they have overlooked the tackles/headers issue).
It was rather abused as an experimental game for "massive inc." online advertising (putting adverts in the game's on-pitch action). That caused lag and killed the game.

Maybe those "mistakes" have been belittled. But the slightest change in things can ruin the core gameplay feeling. It's not "sensible", it's "sensitive" world of soccer in these terms.

Zlatko's port (he just has abandoned to work on his game extension for PC (DOS) SWOS for it) will make the game run on new PCs with intel processor.
Alongside with native USB support, multiplayer (try the current version of PC SWOS online to get a picture of how great it is or check the below linked video) and many many other things.

[flash=500,400] www.youtube.com/v/e5mNpIW6E_A [/flash]

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4 years 11 months ago - 4 years 11 months ago #130416 by steviebwoy78
Replied by steviebwoy78 on topic Re: *** Call to Action: New Sensible Soccer Game ***
Thanks for your explanation Playa, I totally agree that Codemasters made a real mess of the online game. That's completely indisputable. I think an online component is essential for a game (whether it includes a console release or not), but it has to work properly. Again, I would dearly love to see SWOS (or a spiritual successor to SWOS) on the Xbox One or PS4 but I don't think it's particularly realistic at this time.

I think where I'm also coming from to an extent, is that I'd really like to see a *new* Sensible Soccer game. A game that perhaps isn't based on SWOS. A game that encompasses the magic and the character of the game, but that develops it further - perhaps adds new elements to the periphery of the game and, dare I say, adds new elements to the gameplay.

Again, this is a contentious subject and there's a clear distinction to be made between whether Jon should just release a game that is as close to SWOS as he can, or whether he should break out and try and re-imagine that magic in a new football game altogether. I guess that's the crux of the matter, and it's making for an interesting debate if nothing else :)

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4 years 11 months ago #130417 by Playaveli
Then we think in two different directions, which is absolutely fine.
I think, we need SWOS as it is, to run native on today's machines.
Add ons:
- Multiplayer (supporting every game mode which is available for single player, too. Friendly, DIY, career).
- USB support
- resizable league structure (database updates to be done easily by fans, without crashing the game)

Put that on Steam with some smart advertising, and it will sell. Good numbers...

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4 years 11 months ago #130418 by Gravedigger-Sydney
Replied by Gravedigger-Sydney on topic Re: *** Call to Action: New Sensible Soccer Game ***
Spot on Playaveli!
Btw I posted under PC earlier today, would anyone be able to help me?
Much appreciated

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4 years 11 months ago #130419 by steviebwoy78
Replied by steviebwoy78 on topic Re: *** Call to Action: New Sensible Soccer Game ***

Then we think in two different directions, which is absolutely fine.
I think, we need SWOS as it is, to run native on today's machines.
Add ons:
- Multiplayer (supporting every game mode which is available for single player, too. Friendly, DIY, career).
- USB support
- resizable league structure (database updates to be done easily by fans, without crashing the game)

Put that on Steam with some smart advertising, and it will sell. Good numbers...

I agree, is that the aim of Zlatko's port (to get it onto Steam), or is he just making it as an unofficial release? I'm quite excited about this to be honest, especially if he's able to add the ability to edit teams and league structures within the game itself. It would also be nice to be able to have a central online database store of league files - i.e. I could upload my version of the English leagues, and you could download them from within the game - likewise, you could upload and share your German league files, which I could download and use. That would be fantastic and would save an awful lot of messing around with the team.007 (etc) files only for the career to crash! :D

Oh, and tell him to get it onto consoles too! ;)

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