Re: *** Call to Action: New Sensible Soccer Game ***

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4 years 11 months ago #130426 by Playaveli

I agree, is that the aim of Zlatko's port (to get it onto Steam), or is he just making it as an unofficial release? I'm quite excited about this to be honest, especially if he's able to add the ability to edit teams and league structures within the game itself. It would also be nice to be able to have a central online database store of league files - i.e. I could upload my version of the English leagues, and you could download them from within the game - likewise, you could upload and share your German league files, which I could download and use. That would be fantastic and would save an awful lot of messing around with the team.007 (etc) files only for the career to crash! :D

Oh, and tell him to get it onto consoles too! ;)


For an unofficial release, it's the easiest thing to then create a launcher for such league updates etc...

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4 years 11 months ago - 4 years 11 months ago #130428 by lemonheadiv

It will be an all-intel-machine port. That means: Windows, Linux, Mac! Cross platform.


It still not clear to me if we're talking about PC SWOS or Amiga SWOS.
Is Zlatko planning to fix what Renegade screwed up (causing the difference in the game's physics) so that we can play a faithful Amiga port that runs natively on modern machines?

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4 years 11 months ago - 4 years 11 months ago #130431 by DoTa

Thanks for your explanation Playa, I totally agree that Codemasters made a real mess of the online game. That's completely indisputable. I think an online component is essential for a game (whether it includes a console release or not), but it has to work properly. Again, I would dearly love to see SWOS (or a spiritual successor to SWOS) on the Xbox One or PS4 but I don't think it's particularly realistic at this time.

I think where I'm also coming from to an extent, is that I'd really like to see a *new* Sensible Soccer game. A game that perhaps isn't based on SWOS. A game that encompasses the magic and the character of the game, but that develops it further - perhaps adds new elements to the periphery of the game and, dare I say, adds new elements to the gameplay.

Again, this is a contentious subject and there's a clear distinction to be made between whether Jon should just release a game that is as close to SWOS as he can, or whether he should break out and try and re-imagine that magic in a new football game altogether. I guess that's the crux of the matter, and it's making for an interesting debate if nothing else :)


They got already a real good game in 2006, if u searching gameplay not based on swos.  But again bad idea release it after a worldcup and without multiplayer and betatesting. I think this game got really potential. Just needed a half year to year to finish it. Normally it wont get sell if it not working and than it could be also for free it wont be played ;).

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4 years 11 months ago #130432 by Playaveli

It will be an all-intel-machine port. That means: Windows, Linux, Mac! Cross platform.


It still not clear to me if we're talking about PC SWOS or Amiga SWOS.
Is Zlatko planning to fix what Renegade screwed up (causing the difference in the game's physics) so that we can play a faithful Amiga port that runs natively on modern machines?


For now he will just port the PC version. That is hard enough to make it work.

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4 years 11 months ago #130440 by lemonheadiv
I see. Still, it's a remarkable effort.

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4 years 11 months ago #130447 by Emmeti

He doesn't like it because it's perfect for him?


Sorry, I meant it would be perfect for us (swos fans), not for him (and I think I know 2 or 3 reasons...).

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4 years 11 months ago #130449 by Playaveli

not for him (and I think I know 2 or 3 reasons...).


Please share them!

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4 years 11 months ago #130450 by Emmeti

Please share them!


No, I won't.

I just posted to tell steviebwoy78 that the swos (project) "we" have in mind might not be the one that Jon Hare wants, that's all.

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4 years 11 months ago - 4 years 11 months ago #130451 by Playaveli

Please share them!


I just posted to tell steviebwoy78 that the swos (project) "we" have in mind might not be the one that Jon Hare wants, that's all.


Which is not quite  correct. He was very eager to know everything about Zlatko's work.
Too bad you won't enrich this discussion with your thoughts.

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4 years 11 months ago - 4 years 11 months ago #130458 by Retrieving
Kickstarter is a fantastic place to scam fools out of their money, but not a place I'd resort to if I was a legit niche game developer trying to get my point across through quality titles. In that case, the best-bang-for-your-buck option is probably mobile gaming development. Which, coincidentally, is what Jon's been doing for a while.

The problem is that, in order to entice as many backers as possible, you've got to go all out on PR bullshit claims while disguising them as (realistically unattainable) "stretch goals" and, as a result, oftentimes, the whole project becomes more about the campaign and less about the game itself (have a look at what has been going on with Star Citizen, Mighty N°9 or Red Ash for reference, just to name a few huge gaming-related Kickstarter off the top of my head).

Then people realize that you won't be able to deliver the vision you've been boasting about and start getting pissed and you got two options, either you release an unfinished product and brace for the bad press coming your way (that may or may not taint your reputation for years to come) or keep delaying the release while citing the lack of funds as the cause and looking for extra cash somewhere else.

99 times out of 100, neither approaches will result in the game you had envisioned at the beginning of the whole ordeal; some just say screw it run with the money, too.

... and then there's the legal issues associated with the management of the funds (which I'm not that familiar with to be honest, skimmed through their website fine-prints and it doesn't seem all that straight-forward) and the fact that, afaik, Kickstarter doesn't work unless you have someone in the US in charge of the fundraising campaign (there's EU alternatives such as Indiegogo but you wouldn't get half as much the exposition).

Also, getting visibility for your project is quite tricky (I collaborated with Pixel Soccer devs, it was a terrific effort, quality and passion were there and it was shaping up to be the end be all modern 2D soccer game but its Kickstarter failed spectacularly because no one seemed to be aware of it).

Surely Jon Hare's endorsement alone would help boosting it up for a little time but let's face it, he's no Keiji Inafune popularity and media presence-wise and Sensible Software last killer app hit the shelves when Seinfeld was still on air and Agassi had a toupee, also, the scope of the game is somewhat limited (those who weren't around in the 90's would just be like "oh look, yet another shitty 2D mobile soccer game" unless you shove the Sensible Soccer legacy down their throat through promoting), so it's not like it's going to go viral overnight by itself and it likely won't have legs.

Besides, you've got to ask yourself, who are you making this game for?

If you make a new game that has very little to do with the original SWOS, oldschool and/or hardcore fans will be pissed (although it's not like they would ever be able to sustain any worthwhile production effort, there's like what, 200 people playing day in, day out? Not even that), on the other hand, if you make a pixel-perfect 1:1 conversion, no one will play it because SWOS gameplay and visuals just wouldn't cut it in today's market, the appeal isn't there anymore after years of exposition to FIFA'ss and PES's dumbed-down gameplays on auto-pilot and flashy uncannyvalleyic graphics.

It's way too hard and unscripted for casuals and definitely not as visually rewarding as the current paradigms of the industry, so the younger audience wouldn't care tuppence.

There's ways around this though, start small and then work your way up.

Just  throw some money at FBA emulator developers til they cave in and start writing Amiga drivers (or get the GGPO or Supercade developer to port their stuff to WinUAE, whichever is easier), then get GGPO or Fightcade to implement the game into their platform (or pay them to make a standalone client): perfect, stable multiplayer experience over long distances using the original code, no compatibility issues with modern OSs
and, most importantly, you wouldn't be spending insane amounts of money either (heck, the project might even get crowdfounded to some extent, I doubt it'd cost more than 7k pounds and I'm being generous).

I mean, we couldn't convince these guys cause we're nobodies but I bet that if a legendary game designer such as Jon showed up at their door and was all like "yo homies y'all wanna get on board of this little project of mine" they'd be all over it.

Add in a revamped app/website for a multi-tiered Online Career mode inspired by the www.swosit.com version (with a touch of FIFA Ultimate Team for good measure) and you're set. For decades.

Then, if (big IF) the project is successful at the grassroots level and SWOS starts picking up steam on there, you fire the PR machine on all cylinders, have Jon go talk about the "resurrection" of intuitive, easy to pick up, hard to master 2D football games suitable for competitive gaming (very important buzzword these days) to draw attention and announce a big, international tournament whose qualifying rounds will be held online; get Codemasters on board maybe, as sponsor, they wouldn't mind I'm sure.

The competition has got to have have a pretty big money prize (same stuff Valve did with DOTA2) and the final offline tournament will be featured on Twitch and Youtube gaming (cause that's where it's at nowadays).

THEN, retrieve the rights off of Codemasters, repackage the whole thing and make a push for STEAM or whatever.

If you had enough funds or backing from publishers at this point (given the buzz generated) I guess you could even try to make a 3D overlay that works with the original 2D engine (switchable at will), like Capcom does for Street Fighter games (sort of), either scoop up licenses or code in a powerful editor for players, teams, kits and stuff (that way content would be community-driven, saving you tons of cash) and make it look like a hybrid between Sensi 2006 and the NBA Jam remake, big heads, digitized faces and all (except with the classic bird-view, zoomable in and out), would work well with SWOS aesthetics (just switch it off and go back to the original graphics if you are a purist).

The game itself wouldn't change but you'd be able to add a few touches here and there that might help rejuvenate the presentation.

Then, idk, port it to hand-held consoles and high-end phones, make multiplayer cross-platform and take over the world. Easier said than done tho.

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