Re: Sociable Soccer - Jon Hare's new football game is on KICKSTARTER!

There s far too much talk of avatars and clans on the KS page. Jon has since rectified this, but I can t help but feel like he s lost a massive chunk of investment right at the very start of the campaign...

Agree with most of what you said, but Hare has only lost this investment by being honest. I think you are right in assuming that this is going to be more like a facebook game than the SWOS we love. Had he fooled people into thinking the game was an updated SWOS to get backers, then turned round and revealed sociable soccer in all it s glory, people would have been pissed. And it would have been a really shitty thing to do.

I think we should emphasize - this is an ENTIRELY new game and it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Sensible Soccer. Nothing. No more than any of the other boatload of retro style footy games that have used the name to drum up interest.

It is very loosely related in that Hare s ideas went into SWOS and Hare s ideas are going into this new game. So there is a reasonable expectation that if you loved his ideas in SWOS, you ll like the new ideas he has. In that respect, he is more than justified in invoking the Sensi name, no problems.

Again I m not trying to be negative - I encourage everybody to support him. I m just concerned about the backlash when the game is released and it s a cartoony social game that makes money through subscriptions and in-app purchases. The landscape has changed, for a niche game like this, the only way it is going to turn a profit is by its core fans continually forking over money for updates and services. It s never going to sell enough outright to make it worthwhile.

Agree with most of what you said, but Hare has only lost this investment by being honest. I think you are right in assuming that this is going to be more like a facebook game than the SWOS we love. Had he fooled people into thinking the game was an updated SWOS to get backers, then turned round and revealed sociable soccer in all it s glory, people would have been pissed. And it would have been a really shitty thing to do.

I think we should emphasize - this is an ENTIRELY new game and it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Sensible Soccer. Nothing. No more than any of the other boatload of retro style footy games that have used the name to drum up interest.

It is very loosely related in that Hare s ideas went into SWOS and Hare s ideas are going into this new game. So there is a reasonable expectation that if you loved his ideas in SWOS, you ll like the new ideas he has. In that respect, he is more than justified in invoking the Sensi name, no problems.

Again I m not trying to be negative - I encourage everybody to support him. I m just concerned about the backlash when the game is released and it s a cartoony social game that makes money through subscriptions and in-app purchases. The landscape has changed, for a niche game like this, the only way it is going to turn a profit is by its core fans continually forking over money for updates and services. It s never going to sell enough outright to make it worthwhile.

Wooooahhhh there cowboy! Jon has not mentioned anything about subscriptions or in-app purchases being a part of Sociable Soccer. I don t get that from the KS page at all, so I think it s a tiny bit dangerous to imply that might be happening here.

I think Jon is selling the game as is . Yes, there may be updates but I don t get the impression either from KS or the Eurogamer interview, that any of it is paid for after the initial outlay.

As long as the game supports a solid single-player/ local multiplayer experience in addition to the online fanciness, then I m fully behind Sociable Soccer. At this moment in time, this sounds exactly what Jon is aiming for.

I think it s a fair comment. It s the impression that I get from the announcement vid and accompanying materials/comments (some of the incentives, for example, imply that certain avatar/team development aspects are of value). Of course it s only my opinion thus far, we re not going to go down the route of adding just my opinion to the end of each sentence, are we?

If you re-read my comment about the purchases aspect in context, the point was what if we get excited about expectation X but the game turns out to be Y. I described a WORST case scenario. Reductio ad-absurdum if you will...not implying that I know it s gonna have in-app purchases. it might not be quite as extreme as that, but I m willing to bet it ll be closer to that than it will to classic SWOS. It s going to be a socially based game, focusing on the online aspect of clans/avatars/leaderboards etc. To me, it seems that *that* is more of what Jon is aiming for at this point in time.

I fully stand by my final paragraph regarding the business aspect of such a game. Unless the Kickstarter gets a viral shot in the arm from reddit or a major TV news network and manages to fund the game 100%, a budget indie game with limited exposure is just not going to make any money. It s just that impulse buys of in-app purchases has been proven to be such a successful model in todays market, it would almost be stupid not to do it. And once you do that, people need an incentive to make those purchases - i.e. limitations in the shipped game.

And just to reiterate... I m fully behind Sociable Soccer too, no matter how it turns out!

Anyway, fun and interesting to discuss. Maybe the next update will make me eat my words... which I ll be more than happy to do!

I just think to make a statement like I m just concerned about the backlash when the game is released and it s a cartoony social game that makes money through subscriptions and in-app purchases , is a dangerous one to make, particularly when there s absolutely no evidence to suggest it will be. I don t think there s any value in discussing IAPs and subscription models for this game, when nothing (and I mean, absolutely nothing) has been mentioned by Jon to indicate that it s in his thoughts.

For what it s worth, I think Jon is really going to struggle to hit his target from here. I would ve thought he needed to hit at least £50k-100k in the opening 24-48hrs to make it all the way to £300k. It makes me wonder, in part, whether this has been carefully orchestrated to either drum up support for the game when it s released, or whether he s out there trying to find a publisher based off the KS (I hope not, given the current total).

I don t know, I hope Jon realises that he won t get a penny unless he actually hits his target. My main fear is that Jon cites the lack of investment as a sure sign that people aren t interested in his game. I think there s a massive market for a game like this, I just don t believe Jon has maximised the use of his campaign page by being initially vague about the gameplay options. Also, Sociable Soccer . That just doesn t send the right message imho.

I see comments on the kickstarter page are starting to roll in begging for a SWOS style career mode... this would be my own big wish, along with nicely animated nets!

I see comments on the kickstarter page are starting to roll in begging for a SWOS style career mode... this would be my own big wish, along with nicely animated nets!

Total agreement with you there! Are you on the KS comments by the way? I m watching it like a hawk (and commenting rather a lot too!)..

Not yet, still lurking Maybe I should post a hello?

Edit: done!

Not yet, still lurking Maybe I should post a hello?

Aha... ...

Not yet, still lurking Maybe I should post a hello?

Aha... ...

I posted my xmas list...

New update posted on the kickstarter page.

Confirmed, no career mode. Totally understandable if you ask me. If the game is successful, like Sensible, I expect to see a Sociable World of Soccer in a couple of years! ;D