My goal is to bulid a keypad (something like Wana s or Koja s keypad, with the normal 4 arrow keys+ some fire buttons) but with some ergonomic modifications. Although it will be a keypad, electronically it will be a joystick, so I should follow the pinouts, connectors schemes of the joysticks (not keyboards).
As I can see there are two very different type of joystick (the fire buttons are easy, so I won t mention them):
- Amiga-type - or Atari-type - joystick (w DE-9 connector) in which the 2 axis is 4 different switches, and 4 different pins.
A small drawing of the keys, and the table of pin closed:
U D=pin2 13 1- 14
LDR L=pin3 -3 -- -4
R=pin4 23 2- 23
- PC-type joystick (DA-15 connector) in which the 2 axis is 4 different switches (or not) but only 2 pins. The positions not combination of pins closed and open, but combination of resistances. (The data in table are in kOhm, so 50 means 50 kOhm)
0,0 | 0,50 | 0,100
x-axis=pin3 50,0 | 50,50 | 50,100
y-axis=pin5 100,0 | 100,50 | 100,100
(The resistors aren t accurate, especially if the joy using potentiometers, so every sw needs calibration to use it.)
So the question is which type should I build? Factors are: simple build-up, and that it can be used in every platform.
- The Amiga type seems to me very easy. I just need the 4 switches and nothing else. (Am I right?)
- The PC type can be also easy but only if I use 1 Normally Open and 1 Normally Closed switch in each axis (as the middle position need to be 50 kOhm).
I would use Cherry MX switches (preferably black) but they are NO, not NC. It may be possible that with the physical modification of the switches I could make NC from them, but I would like to avoid this method, as it would damage the nice mechanics of the switches. So I have only NO switches.
So I must use a more complicated circuit with a transistor, but still not way too much complicated. So both designs can be built fair easily.
Usability in each platform
I mainly want to use the keypad in live competitions, but there are 4 different platforms (beside the exotic platforms like Sega and XBox), and on each platform the demands can be different.
Amiga ?? OK
Win98 OK ?
DOSBox OK Â§
WinUAE OK OK
Â§: I know there are converters that make it possible to attach Amiga-joy to a Gameport, and we did use one at the Hungarian champ. with Bromberg s classic Competition Pro, but it did not worked with the DOSBox game, as Win XP saw it as a 8 button joys, where som buttons (maybe 3-4?) is constantly pressing. Maybe it was a faulty converter, I have no other experience. (It was worked well with WinUAE though.)
?: I have never tired, but it should work with the above converter.
??: Is there any good converter from DA-15 PC-joy to Amiga?
As I don t have Amiga (actually, and sadly I have never played on Amiga with SWoS nor any other game), so my first thought was a PC-type, but to have a really all-rounder keypad, I am open to the Amiga one. The answers about compatibility will decide which way I will go.
Thanks for any help or advice!
After some min. of thinking I made this idea even better. I will wire all buttons, and end them to a connector. It means 11 pins, 8 for the directions, and 2 + a common ground for the buttons (because of the PC circuit, common ground is not good for the directions). It will ended to a D-sub connector (not DA-15 to avoid confusion), and there will be two pigtail cable with the necessary circuits: one pigtail for the Amiga (a very simple one), and one for the PC (a bit complicated, with a box). I can even make a third one later with USB (with a lot more complicated circuit).
The idea have a very nice side effect: I would like to make my controller as flat as possible, so it will allow to put all the circuits outside the controller box (mainly problem for PC circuit).
Now I am thinking about make the circuits converter box to a PCB. Have never done such a thing so it would be interesting.
There are several types of MX keys, but it seems you already know that. Im not sure i found the right ones, but just search for cherry on the website. Here is two diff. mx ones:
and a ml one: hu.rs-online.com/web/p/erinteserzekeny-k...etkapcsolok/0199267/
gl with the project..
Very useful links! I have not started to buy the things, as I am not sure about all components, but I was thinking about buying a new keyboard with Cherry MX blacks, and destroy it, but it seems to me more lot sophisticated solution (and even lot cheaper if I won t build too much controllers), to buy them separately.
Your keypad is Amiga wired?
Your keypad is Amiga wired?
Yes, all of them are made from broken amiga joysticks since they had no other use, and because we were only using them for amiga play offline in the beginning. But just as the keys you can buy 9-pin and 15-pin connectors at electronic websites so you don t have to ruin joysticks/gamepads.
When we started playing pc, then we just used gameport to amiga converter cables for pc. But sounds like a good idea with double connection for both amiga and pc and u should have 2 firebuttons for calibrating pc controllers. WÃ¤nÃ¤ and Dior both made this to their keypad designs. Otherwise you have to disconnect the keypad, and plug in a mouse, and press button2 everytime you calibrate it which can be time consuming in the long run.
I know Dior and Bielen made theirs with pcb designs for mass producing, so if their design is what you had in mind, ask him for the schematics of the pcb.
the easiest way is building a keypad for Amiga. I have used old MX-keyboards and RS232 COM-cables (like that www.ebay.de/itm/SUB-D-Verlangerungskabel...C3%B6r_Kabel_Adapter hash=item5ad8a27b52 )
You can cut off the not used end. then you must only solder the wire to the MX-keys.
All other possibilities like Gameport and USB was too complicated for me, or better i was not in the mood to try that
Have fun with your project mate
Den Plan kenne ich noch, nach seinen Vorgaben hatte ich einige Joysticks fÃ¼r PC umgebaut. Einen davon hatte ich bei eBay zufÃ¤llig an Obi-Wan verkauft und jetzt hat ihn irgendwie Oli O.
Hier ist noch ein Bild, was ich dazu gemalt hatte. Umschalter sind die Schalter mit den 3 Kontakten, das Blaue sind die WiderstÃ¤nde, mehr muss man gar nicht wissen. Vielleicht kann s ja jemand gebrauchen, es funktioniert jedenfalls.
I took some pictures of 4 different types of keycaps i have on some of my pads. Check it out here:
The ones with clear blank tops are some special ones i found on the internet, which fit with mx keys and my steelseries 6gv2 keyboard. They are called Cherry relegendable keycaps . Seems hard to come by, but can be found on the web. An even flatter keycap is a special tipro version (Tipro relegendable keycaps MID series). See it here on the right:
But i cant find them anywhere to order it from without costing a fortune.
The problem with the above scheme is that use switches with NC and NO pin too, but the Cherry MX ones only work as NO, so I must make a more complicated design.
About number of fire buttons: for calibration purpose I need 2 keys, yes, but I am also thinking about wire 4, as the PC can handle 4. I can not imagine that I will use them to another game now, but maybe it would very few additional cost/work, so I will wire them, I am still unsure about 2 or 4 buttons, but as it is not likely that I will use them, I will leave out them.
Another question is (only for PC circuit): UP=0kOhm, Center=50kOhm, Down=100kOhm, but what should be the if both switches are closed? OFC this is not important, but to make a perfect circuit I have to decide if I it will be 50 kOhm (center) or one direction.