Re: Do we need special p2p-rules?
15 years 4 weeks ago #62041
by Bomb
Do we need special p2p-rules? was created by Bomb
Hi players!
Maybe this topic already exists, but I think not in this form.
I try to point out the problem using a concrete example:
yesterday there was a small night-cup. 10 players or so, 2 groups. Player A won the group-stage (which alone took 2 hours, but thats another prob
),
and meets player B in first KO-round. Till to that point player A only had opponents from central/north-europe (poland/germany etc.) like himself - p2p-mode was no problem at all. Then he played vs. player B from, lets say, turkey or portugal (or america or what ever, a bit more far away) and lost, but not dued to his skillz, but to the delay in p2p-mode, which was not 2 anymore, but 4.
do I have to continue? :
If player A plays with 2 delays (around 30 or 40 ms) usually, and player B playes with 4 delay (90 or 100) usually, its a clear disadvantage for A, if both ko games are played in p2p mode which is only normal for B. At least one game then should take place on a server with normal conditions for player A. Or the first game takes place on a good server for player A, second on a good one for player B.
There are enough servers in europe to satisfy every player, I guess.
Ok, If I want to play vs some player from japan or america, there are probably no servers for both, so p2p is a must.
I don t know if results really can be taken for serious, where the conditions for one player are an advantage or normal, for the other one not.
I dont wanna blame anyone who comes from portugal, turkey, america - in contrary, its great, to have the possibility that I can play vs all of them.
in fact, players from far away can say the same about me or other players from central europe. but thats not our (swos-players) fault, its just a technical problem of the internet (still), which is corncerning all players .
I suggest to create some rules, which will make sure a bit more equality, if such rules are realistic and possible.
but before I would like to have some reactions of you other players... What do you think?
Maybe this topic already exists, but I think not in this form.
I try to point out the problem using a concrete example:
yesterday there was a small night-cup. 10 players or so, 2 groups. Player A won the group-stage (which alone took 2 hours, but thats another prob
),and meets player B in first KO-round. Till to that point player A only had opponents from central/north-europe (poland/germany etc.) like himself - p2p-mode was no problem at all. Then he played vs. player B from, lets say, turkey or portugal (or america or what ever, a bit more far away) and lost, but not dued to his skillz, but to the delay in p2p-mode, which was not 2 anymore, but 4.
do I have to continue? :
If player A plays with 2 delays (around 30 or 40 ms) usually, and player B playes with 4 delay (90 or 100) usually, its a clear disadvantage for A, if both ko games are played in p2p mode which is only normal for B. At least one game then should take place on a server with normal conditions for player A. Or the first game takes place on a good server for player A, second on a good one for player B.
There are enough servers in europe to satisfy every player, I guess.
Ok, If I want to play vs some player from japan or america, there are probably no servers for both, so p2p is a must.
I don t know if results really can be taken for serious, where the conditions for one player are an advantage or normal, for the other one not.
I dont wanna blame anyone who comes from portugal, turkey, america - in contrary, its great, to have the possibility that I can play vs all of them.
in fact, players from far away can say the same about me or other players from central europe. but thats not our (swos-players) fault, its just a technical problem of the internet (still), which is corncerning all players .
I suggest to create some rules, which will make sure a bit more equality, if such rules are realistic and possible.
but before I would like to have some reactions of you other players... What do you think?
15 years 4 weeks ago - 15 years 4 weeks ago #62042
by Bomb
Replied by Bomb on topic Re: Do we need special p2p-rules?
I just think about it, because sometimes this situation causes mad reactions and struggle...
like yesterday night
like yesterday night
15 years 4 weeks ago - 15 years 4 weeks ago #62044
by LIK
Replied by LIK on topic Re: Do we need special p2p-rules?
I will write about my experience with P2P, comparing it with game on real amiga.
- 1 skip delay = like an offline game if there is no lag
- 2 skips delay = almost like a 1 skip, very playable
- 3 skips delay = defence is much harder to play, attack is still pretty good
- 4 skips delay = you can play defece only by premonition here, there is still some swos feeling in attack
- 5 skips or more = to me there is no SWOS elements left in this game
About your proposition i think we can try it if for example we have more than 3 skips on p2p game.
- 1 skip delay = like an offline game if there is no lag
- 2 skips delay = almost like a 1 skip, very playable
- 3 skips delay = defence is much harder to play, attack is still pretty good
- 4 skips delay = you can play defece only by premonition here
, there is still some swos feeling in attack- 5 skips or more = to me there is no SWOS elements left in this game
About your proposition i think we can try it if for example we have more than 3 skips on p2p game.
15 years 4 weeks ago #62048
by Wänä81
Replied by Wänä81 on topic Re: Do we need special p2p-rules?
For me is that simple, i wouldn´t play against any opponent if there is a delay from more than 80ms and 4 frames delay. 40ms for each player are ok and 4 frames are ok if there is no other possibility to play. If there is more...for example with the USA i play 1 match on a server here and 1 match on server in USA. Thats better for me , because i can play SWOS in 1 match . The other is no SWOS , same as i would play both with P2P (100ms and 5 frames) 
i play 1 match on a server here and 1 match on server in USA. Thats better for me , because i can play SWOS in 1 match . The other is no SWOS , same as i would play both with P2P (100ms and 5 frames) 
15 years 4 weeks ago #62049
by _sox_
by the way, i agree with lik s tought with a little modify:
- 1 skip delay = like an offline game if there is no lag
- 2 skips delay = almost like a 1 skip, very playable
- 3 skips delay = defence is much harder to play, attack is harder too
- 4 skips delay = you can play defece only by premonition here Smiley, and you can strike only because your opponent has not the premonition gift
- 5 skips or more = to me there is no SWOS elements left in this game.tetris is better
Replied by _sox_ on topic Re: Do we need special p2p-rules?
i think 3 delays is not really good stuff...ok, i can accept it when i play with a man from other side of the the word, but when i play against italians (like me) and delays = 3 i don t think that it is a very good game.indeed, 3 delays should be no problem...
by the way, i agree with lik s tought with a little modify:
- 1 skip delay = like an offline game if there is no lag
- 2 skips delay = almost like a 1 skip, very playable
- 3 skips delay = defence is much harder to play, attack is harder too
- 4 skips delay = you can play defece only by premonition here Smiley, and you can strike only because your opponent has not the premonition gift
- 5 skips or more = to me there is no SWOS elements left in this game.tetris is better
15 years 4 weeks ago - 15 years 4 weeks ago #62050
by lemonheadiv
Replied by lemonheadiv on topic Re: Do we need special p2p-rules?
Hmm, interesting topic...but to go straight to the point, I don t think we need special rules for this.
The 4 frames delay condition is not exactly normal for player B either. Assuming he s from Portugal for example, we will easily get a 2 or 3 frames delay against his compatriots like you do against people from central europe. So I wouldn t define it a normal condition.
And if player B were to play on a server he wouldn t get a good performance like he would on p2p. As far as I know people from Germany are the only ones getting around 15ms pings on servers...
Btw I also ran into similar problems. I know that if I play against people from Italy I will get 40 to 60 frames ( 2 frames delay ), whereas if I play against someone from Poland or Portugal I ll easily get 4 frames delay ( even 5 at times and that s really too much ).
By playing on server though I always get a worse performance than on p2p, even against people from my country...the game just isn t that smooth.
Obviously it s hard to get used to different delays, that s something we all have to coexist with ( except Ejder maybe ).
If player A plays with 2 delays (around 30 or 40 ms) usually, and player B playes with 4 delay (90 or 100) usually, its a clear disadvantage for A, if both ko games are played in p2p mode which is only normal for B.
The 4 frames delay condition is not exactly normal for player B either. Assuming he s from Portugal for example, we will easily get a 2 or 3 frames delay against his compatriots like you do against people from central europe. So I wouldn t define it a normal condition.
And if player B were to play on a server he wouldn t get a good performance like he would on p2p. As far as I know people from Germany are the only ones getting around 15ms pings on servers...
Btw I also ran into similar problems. I know that if I play against people from Italy I will get 40 to 60 frames ( 2 frames delay ), whereas if I play against someone from Poland or Portugal I ll easily get 4 frames delay ( even 5 at times and that s really too much ).
By playing on server though I always get a worse performance than on p2p, even against people from my country...the game just isn t that smooth.
Obviously it s hard to get used to different delays, that s something we all have to coexist with ( except Ejder maybe
).
Time to create page: 0.231 seconds
